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The "no time for tears" paragraph is so true; i wish more "mainstream" games developpers had this concept in mind when creating their games.
Couldn't expect less from team meat :D !
Skab,
meat lover
Great article. Totally agree with Skab about "no time for tears" in mainstream games. Really frustrating.
Beating children is fun, don't knock it till you try it. Also, good article.
I love this analysis! toying with game design myself, this was pretty informative but I felt like I should have already known some of it. I hadn't really thought about some of these ideas, so thanks for the words and I can't wait for the game! good work!
"The time it takes for Meat Boy to die and respawn is almost instant, the player never waits to get back into the game, the pace never dropps"
Should be drops?
Yeah, I have seen that game design before and it doesn't appeal to me as I reached a treshold where it is too much effort and I stop playing because it is fun anymore...
Yeah, I have seen that game design before and it doesn't appeal to me as I reached a treshold where it is too much effort and I stop playing because it is fun anymore...
I wish all games had difficulty options like this, so people could just play what is fun rather than getting all preeny about playing OMG HARD games. More importantly, it lets people actually learn how to improve slowly, rather than just frustrating them by killing them over and over.
The idea that Hard mode is designed for players who have just beaten the normal difficulty is one I'd love to see more games adopt. The last major release I saw that used such a system was Bayonetta on the 360/PS3. Not surprising that it has a perfectly tuned difficulty curve (it's by the makers of God Hand and the original Devil May Cry), but it really does do it right in every way possible.
Once you beat Normal mode in Bayonetta, you unlock Hard, which is a lot like your Dark World. You get to take all your upgrades and weapons right back to the beginning of the game, but you'll be facing endgame enemies in increasingly tough fights right off the bat. It picks up exactly where Normal leaves off, effectively doubling the amount of content to play through.
I love indie games, nothing against them or those who make them, but infinite lives level restarting was not invented by indie developers in the early to mid '00s. Proper credit for that development goes to, of course, Nintendo with Warioland 2 for the Game Boy, one of the greatest platformers of all time.
In Wario 2, you didn't just have infinite lives, you were invincible. The levels were designed in such a clever way that failure was punished with backtracking and lost treasure. If you fell in a hole, you would always land somewhere. You just might have to walk back a room, climb back up a ladder, and try again.
Heed some advice I have been following lately.
Steal from the forgotten masters.
Except Wario 2 was terrible exactly because it forced you to waste time trudging back to the beginning of a challenge rather than killing you and respawning you. I admire their emphasis on stat conditions rather than a health bar, but the way it was implemented made the game, and 3 as well, a chore to play.
Oh, aformentioned Bayonetta also goes the 'small snippets of gameplay, infinite lives' route, but dying takes a large chunk out of your end-of-level score. You're not punished if you're struggling, but it does let you know in no uncertain terms that you could be doing a lot better.
A lot of the NES action games had infinite continues (unfortunately). But for longer games which have a lot of filler like Mario, continues/saves would be a good idea.
Very cool, love the pictures.
I need to find a minute to read the text too.
While I agree that the formula you have developed is great I must admit that I don't see it as a one size fits all kind of solution. I'm currently in early production of a survival horror game in the vein of the old Silent Hill and Resident Evil games. I will be using their methods of creating tension by the risk reward for a higher score for fewer saves but you are risking losing progress.
I know a lot of people find that having to repeat sections is too harsh a punishment but I feel that it is necessary for a Survival Horror game as without it there is no fear of death.
Not only that but the "You Have Died" screen bringing you to the title screen route after death will be taken. Again many people think gaming has gone past this but I disagree. Death at any time is a valid end to a story and if the wanabe hero dies before escaping then that is how the story ends. You can load up and try to get a different ending but I like that every death be treated like a true conclusion. In games where survival is key death has to be a big deal.
(Of course I'm yet to have a big game so I don't know a lot about commercial appeal, I'm just making the games I want to play)
You CAN continue in Super Mario Bros. (Hold A and press Start). You just have to start from World X-1.
Dying in IWTBG was pretty harsh in that each little section of each stage is a little stage of its own. It was very nice in that you couldn't just endlessly jump through it without somehow getting lucky along all that as it was a chain of events that you had to perfect to advance.
That and IWTBG is the cause for many thrown PC controllers. :(
Excellent advice for devs about pitching difficulty by using a 'dark mode' and a clear summary of the history of gaming difficulty evolution, most importantly for the 'ADD' generation of today. The replay mode is also an excellent concept, I wonder how hard it is to implement (presumably by storing player input versus time somehow?) Awesome article, I really appreciated the clear, humorous, and concise explanation of these imporatant game design issues!! Long live Super Meat Boy :)
Excellent advice for devs about pitching difficulty by using a 'dark mode' and a clear summary of the history of gaming difficulty evolution, most importantly for the 'ADD' generation of today. The replay mode is also an excellent concept, I wonder how hard it is to implement (presumably by storing player input versus time somehow?) Awesome article, I really appreciated the clear, humorous, and concise explanation of these imporatant game design issues!! Long live Super Meat Boy :)
This was a great, funny explanation. You guys have the perfect balance of challenge and reward. The beating children joke was just genius.
I'm actually making a game with short levels, but with lives. Thing about it is, the lives are part of the core gameplay mechanic, so when you run out, the level restarts.
As for the levels on ramped up difficulty mode, does anyone have any comments on the idea of adding additional difficulty factors/gameplay mechanics rather that modifying the level itself? I'm just wondering.
@Solidplasma In a few weeks ill talk indepth about adding mechanics that add to dificulty in a post about fully exploring gameplay mechanics.
@Rorkimaru this formula only really fits the platformer genera of games, but i think you can take a lot from it and apply it to others.
@Provider I was waiting for someone to point out the obvious. Yes SMB had a secret continue option but it was hidden.. im not talking about hidden mechanics.
You are a smart guy. I've been wondering for some considerable time how I'm going to be able to make difficulty 'work' in an upcoming (probably-not-very-good) platformer I'm preoccupying myself with and your article really made a lot of sense.
The approach you take is similar the the VVVVVV approach - death has virtually no penalty, but the game itself is very hard. I personally think there's only so much you can squeeze out of this formula, it encourages players to be pretty reckless and it can lead to them winning just by 'bruteforcing' a level.
There's nothing really wrong with that, but for my platformer I decided upon big open levels with multiple pathways. While the game is very hard, there are many checkpoints and multiple exits to the level, so if the player is having trouble going down one path they can backtrack to the nearest alternate route and go there as well. There are also exploration\collection elements so if the player does head into an obstacle they can't overcome, their time isn't wasted. If you put regular checkpoints in and a generous number of lives (say 25) before you have to restart the level it means that when the player does restart the level they don't have to do the whole megaman-style 'play the whole level again in order to get to that one part you can't do' thing which I hate so much.
Of course, I have yet to see if this formaula works because the game is in the very early stages. But it's always nice to try new things.
Difficulty curves can be hard to nail, as can pleasing everyone, so your solution with the dark world levels is quite elegant indeed, reminiscent of what Super Mario Galaxy did. Best of luck to ya!
It's fantastic seeing a game developer talk this way. :) These ideas - at least the parts that aren't specific to Super Meat Boy - are very similar to ones I've discussed in my own blog, most notably in this article: http://www.pixelpoppers.com/2009/11/t est-skills-not-patience-challenge.htm l
The decrease in player punishment is one of the most important and strongest trends in the evolution of game design, and it's good to see it embraced, and the reasons for that embracing phrased so clearly.
My own writeup doesn't have the adorable pictures, but you may find it interesting nonetheless. :)
Great article. Balancing levels and difficulty is a real challenge.
The biggest issue I had with the original Meat Boy was not knowing what levels had bandages and what levels I missed bandages in, making for a lot of back tracking.
supose no1 has played torchlight a gd isometric dungoen crawler with 4 dificultys easy, normal, hard and super hard with a tick box saying "hardcore" if you tick that box ur death is permenent so that 10 hours you spent getting to that point is wasted now that is rough
This is brilliant, This is the first time I'm more excited about a downloadable game than any retail game.
I was just linked in from the AVClub game preview and Super Meat Boy looks fantastic. After reading this, I'd be really intrigued to hear your thoughts on 'Limbo.' The creators of that game should take a crash course in the above. While it looks interesting and there are some great 'wow' moments, I think it fails because not only are there no penalties for death you dies so often that it is impossible to have any kind of connection with the game or the character. I'm glad that you guys are thinking about it in a more developed sense.
I was just linked in from the AVClub game preview and Super Meat Boy looks fantastic. After reading this, I'd be really intrigued to hear your thoughts on 'Limbo.' The creators of that game should take a crash course in the above. While it looks interesting and there are some great 'wow' moments, I think it fails because not only are there no penalties for death you dies so often that it is impossible to have any kind of connection with the game or the character. I'm glad that you guys are thinking about it in a more developed sense.
Thanks for this! This is exactly the kind of thing I'll be thinking about in the next year (I'm doing a thesis on this very topic, which reminds me: I'm making games in Grad School and getting away with it. Huzzah higher education!) and I love it when designers give something very basic like this some real, hard, thought. I like your thoughts on rewards, which is something that I haven't been too deeply concerned with. In my experience with IWBTG, the mere act of navigating to the next screen was its own reward, but perhaps that reward comes from the metroid-y level design also, as each screen serves as a massive obstacle that hinders your exploration of the next screen: the tantalizing desire to explore serves in an indirect way as the reward in that game, which is something you can't do in a bite-sized level design as well.
Something I remember distinctly from Super Metroid and Chrono Trigger was also the reward of mastery, of encountering a past obstacle that was at first difficult but then rendered easy because of the powers you've unlocked between now and then. Charging through a hallway in Super Metroid with the speed upgrade when before you had to carefully navigate the nest of vicious monsters makes the player feel a very satisfying sense of power, and one thing that IWBTG (probably purposefully) didn't do was have you be able to revisit the same challenges again, but rendered trivial due to some screw attack or space jump or what have you.
"A hardcore superstar is born. the weirdest game to hit these pages in Xbox 360's history." -Official Xbox Magazine