Jintek - I see your point, but I just believe it was a case of them overcommiting and possibly making too generous promises they didn't realise they would be hard pressed to keep (especially regarding deadlines) They did so in good faith though and above and beyond what was needed, so I regard anything past the core 310 levels as a bonus.

As a reasonable person, I am happy to give them a bye, seeing as the core product is excellent and I have had incredible value for money as is, and the alternative is to expect them to work for free for another 6 months just to make a minor difference in a budget product that I bought that I will probably won't even be playing at that point. That, to me, is extremely unreasonable to expect two people to slave away for free for months for something that will make an incredibly minor difference in my life overall and when I already have had more than my value for money. Only an asshole would.

Should the fact they're just a two man team and not an EA sized monster with 100,000 employees and a billion dollar turnover not make a difference as you say? I disagree. Have a bit of fucking perspective. Or do you hold the local indepenent store to the same obligations as Wal-Mart too because they're both technically stores? Only an asshole would.

Regardless your comparison with a large developer is one sided anyway. Yes, EA may have fixed the bugs quicker, but they would never have developed the game in the first place or added a level editor or SMW for free. Any reasonable person understands you don't get both, so doesn't make such stupid comparisons or demands based on such.

If you wish to wave your $10 reciept in the air and claim ungraciously that still entitles you to all this, then fine. But legally you have no leg to stand on (pre-advertised or not, 'free' features are still free, and thus you legally did not pay for them - more fool you if you did) and IMO, ethically you don't have a leg to stand on either as explained above, so I just object to the high horse and endless drama, and believe this is the product of a ridiculous and corrosive culture of entitlement that infests society.

If someone came to you with a similar complaint at your business, you'd tell them to fuck off, and I'm glad Team Meat have essentially done the same.

Well, I should have stated this is more in response to the drama that started in the "User Friendliness" thread and the TC's rant than in this topic than anything, and directed more at disgruntled speedrunners than level editors disappointed at what could have been.

I can see your point, but you must also look at this in a cost/reward breakdown from the developers points of view who have rent to pay like everyone else. The users complaining are generally being extremely unrealistic and ungrateful with their demands.

Simply put, what is being demanded and by whom is not worth the time and money it would take to fulfil, and your purchase of $10 does not come with the lifetime enslavement of Team Meat in the T&Cs. There must come a cutoff point somewhere when you hit diminishing returns in a cost/benefit analysis, and we're here. In fact, what gets me so mad, is that was probably hit months ago, yet Team Meat carried on regardless, and for that they should be commended, not called out.

Regarding numbers, the 600,000 is taken from sales figures widely reported in March, the 1000 editors is quite a generous figure admittedly pulled off the top of my head (but by looking at the amount of levels created, I can't imagine this being anything but the absolute upper limit - the real number is probably close to 100) and the 10 angry users are culled from this forum. There's probably only about 20 people seriously speedrunning the game if you look at the leaderboards, and they're playing their own OCD based metagame. They're not representative of the average player who bought this game by a long shot, and the game was not designed with them in mind, and shouldn't be either.

Is the metagame broken? Possibly. Is the game broken? No. Not in any way, shape or form, and that is their only obligation to you, and the 600,000 other purchasers who are generally happy with what they got.

Are the unreasonable demands of an incredibly vocal and shrill, yet miniscule minority worth the team throwing good money and time after bad, expecially when continually insulted by them? No it isn't. Just because they have loud voices doesn't mean they have anything of worth to say, just like a child. It is about a classic case of entitlement you can get.

[at least]

RockLee - Generally I respond to things that don't effect me personally when the debate is one sided because it frustrates me to see people make sustained, unwarranted, illogical and just plain selfish attacks on things without any merit or response. My agenda is nothing more than to try to rebalance things with a little sanity. I don't include you on that list as you always conduct yourself with fairness and courtesy. Others? Not so much, so they deserve agression back. Just unlike them, I remove the fake-passive part from mine.

Sure, I occasionally use harsh words and tones, but that's because I need to put a counter argument to about 50 walls o' text in a couple of paragraphs, and to strongly word it is about the only way you can do it without responding with line for line rebutalls, which when almost every word is ridiculous, is more efficent to do what Blatch did and just tell people to suck it up.

Long story short - you paid $10 for a game and got at least triple that in the main game alone. Complaining about imperfections in free additions to the the game that have taken upwards of 6 months of time from the development team is the height of childish entitlement. 6 months of development time from 2 qualified devs, I value at about $3000 a month salary per person minimum, so about $36,000 worth of salaried time has gone into the editor and SMW. If even 1000 people use the editor or bought it purely for that feature (and it doesn't seem even remotely that close) that's already over 3 times the retail cost of the main game going into that feature alone.

I don't care if you bought the game on the promise of the editor - you're already getting a ridiculous amount of value for your pissy $10. Team Meat will have already lost thousands on this feature (not to mention server costs) and for what? Miserable ungrateful fucks who do nothing but complain and demand more?

Lets look at those numbers again. This game had racked up over 600,000 sales in about March I think, so that's a conservative estimate. Now compare that with how many people are regularly using the level editor. About 100 max? Now how many of those are disatified? About 10?

Just because they then come here and spam the forum with endless self-pity does not mean they have anything valid to say. In fact, if I was Edmund, I'd just refund all 10 of them their money, and for the low price of $100 pull the rug away from their arguments. Every game has their drama queens who feel their purchase entitles them to a lifetime of slave ownership from the developers pandering to their every whim. This is no different.

All leaderboards in all games are hacked. The focus of the game is not speedrunning either - that's a feature pandering to an incredibly minor segment of the gaming population that is played as a metagame. Leaderboards are included as standard in every XBLA game per Microsoft's orders. You can choose to obsess over your times, that's you choice, but didn't pay for a metagame, you paid for a platformer. Likewise you didn't pay for a level editor, you paid for a platformer.

This will be my last contribution to this debate as I refuse to give these people and their invalid arguments the oxgyen of respectability. I only get angry when selfish people post irrational arguments and act like their being reasonable when they aren't, purely because right minded people generally have better things to do than repeatedly respond to fools and children, so left unchecked, they start to believe they actually have a point as there's no strong counter-argument.

I just try to restore a little balance. 10 vocal people out of 600,000+ sales is nothing and they should be regarded as such, not have their opinions courted.

This game has sold well over 600,000 copies. The critical response has likewise been universal acclaim.

The voice of 10 or so people maximum, endlessly spamming these forums with petty and trivial, overblown and self-pitying complaints are irellevent. You views mean nothing and nobody cares.

The problem isn't with the game, it is with you and your childish attitude, and the tragedy is there's no patch for that.

People here need to shut the fuck up and grow up. You paid just $10 for a game that has provided months and months of enjoyment, yet you still find things to whine about and type entire pages on over periods of weeks, even regarding FREE elements like the editor and SMW? Pathetic.

Personally I'd ban you too. The game is a fantastic achievement, and I personally could not give two shits if a bunch of OCD leaderboard obsessives aren't happy. You people never are. The mindset of someone who wastes hours of their lives doing something as inconsequential as re-running a level hundreds of times to take .01 of a second off a time doesn't lend itself well to social interaction.

The game as it stands (from level 1 to 310) is an amazing achievemnt. Everything else is inconsequential, as are your complaints about them.

[BUMP!]

BUMP!

Sh00takai hasn't been on the forum for a month now, but this needs finishing!!! Let's PM him into submission as it's 2/3rds finished and is one of the best looking chapters in development, and now the editor is out it'd be a real shame to see this never see the light of day. 

I was being sarcastic, silly. :P

Ahh no worries, and apologies. There's a lot of nutcases on the internet and it's hard to tell when people are being serious! 

Nice chapter with a great set of ideas and consistent theme, but definitely one for the experts.

It was nice, but suffered a little too much from "fake difficulty" in places for my liking which I felt ruined some of the designs by implimenting some near pixel perfect jumps and putting the hardest obstacle on a few levels right at the very end, which isn't great design in my book. I found it manageable, but I've A+'ed the whole game with Meat Boy, so am not representative and feel most will struggle and get frustrated.

But apart from that, a great chapter I thought. Looking forward to the other two chapters when they're fixed.

I have to direct my outrage at the fact that my chapter doesn't work at something, and MS is so faceless it wouldn't make me feel any better.

Just be happy they offered to put it up in the first place. They don't owe you a thing and it's a great gesture. Being angry because it'll be a few days late (especially towards the people who did you such a huge favour in the first place for no cost) is extremely childish and ungrateful.

I'm not saying you are that, but if it is the case, it's a silly attitude to have. How would you take it if you did something really nice for someone for no reward and they then started shouting at you because your gift was slightly late? Personally, i'd completely take it back.

I hope you understand Team Meat isn't working on Super Meat Boy anymore apparently.

No update/announcement/tweet for 1 month.

What are you even talking about? They update their Twitter daily and are still working on the Mac version and editor updates as they have only very recently said themselves. Your post, dare I say, is completely full of shit. 

...and it currently freezes your 360 every time you try it. 

Super Meat Boy fanfic? Really? Pages of it?

I can't think of anything to say that wouldn't be classed as trolling or flaming, so I will stay silent on the matter.

XOXO - Took me about an hour to do it originally, now I can do it without dying about 95% of the time, and have actually got the #2 spot (possibly legit #1 as the top guy has been banned...) on PC and 360. I find it so easy now it's the only level i've actually bothered speedrunning.

I'd argue levels that are difficult due to layout are the best. They almost act like a puzzle game, as the game challenges you to work out how to finish it, and when you do, it becomes relatively simple, and then speedrunable.

7-19X: XOXO is a perfect example of this. It's always listed as one of the hardest levels in the game, but one you get the trick to the upper level jumps, it's quite easy.

If they ever did do additional DLC, that would be a nice addiiton - new tilesets for the editor with new hazards.