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[RyokoTK]

It's one or more of the following:

1. We spent money on this game. Edmund loves to talk about how we should be happy that the updates are free, but that's ridiculous. Other developers release updates for free because they feel an obligation to fix their broken games. If SMB was free from the get-go, it would be an entirely different issue. The idea that there are going to be massive bugs in the game that will never be fixed because they're too difficult smells like "taking the money and running" to me.

2. We want to keep being a part of the community, but it doesn't seem worth it when we are willing to give time and devotion to the game and the community and TM don't want to give it back. The complete illegitimacy of the leaderboards means speedrunners are losing interest; competition is impossible when, even if you don't cheat, you might glitch your times and be out of the running for a legitimate score anyway. It always comes back to the idea that fixing it would essentially be "too hard."

3. The constant backing out on features that sold the game (to me at least) is really distressing and unprofessional. I bought the game last year because it looked cool but mostly because of the proposed level editor and uploading system, since level design is what really interests me. It was supposed to drop in January; it didn't until April and it was nonfunctional anyway. No leaderboards on custom levels is annoying; not saving times at all is inexcusable; the glitchiness and design oversights are ridiculous. And the annoying thing is, every time these issues are brought up in an attitude other than complete deference there's a big lashing out that boils down to "you should be happy to have this at all!"

So anyway, congratulations TM on making a lot of money off of SMB, but if you think I'm going to move on with you to your next game just because you're "bored" with your incomplete product you can get bent. Indie game developers love to get people to buy in before the game is done (hello HIB2) and I don't know why I expected any better.

[Chase]

Well written and I agree 100%.

[Jintek]

I do agree 100% also, but it IS a case of entitlement.  I'm (and everyone who bought the game) ARE entitled to a 100% functioning product we spent money on.  That includes the arms length pile of bugs/glitches/missing features we were told would be fixed "in the next update"...months ago.  If Team Meat doesn't have the technical expertise to work these issues out in a timely manner for paying customers, either man up and say so, or hand off the source code to people competent enough to do so.  Period.

The fact is I spent more than enough cash on SMB (6 Steam copies, 1 XBLA, 1 Ultra) so my opinion is just as relevant as anyone else's...and I'll say what the fuck I want about the game.  The favorite excuse of a lot of people is to say "well Team Meat is only a two man team".  Well guess what?  That's a personal problem, not my problem or the community's problem.  If Team Meat allegedly made so much money on SMB...then hire some damn people who can actually fix these issues, if they really care about the future of the SMB community.  Otherwise the proof is in the actions and delivery of Team Meat.  Let's see if Team Meat puts their newly acquired cash where their mouths are, and does right by the fans in the end.  

I don't care if Team Meat is a 1, 2, or 200 man team.  If I payed $5, $60, or $100 I expect my game to work as advertised, and if not to be fixed in a timely manner.

All I've ever asked for is bugs/glitches/optimization/editor to be fixed, and for the Steam version to share the exact same features the XBLA version has (completion/A+/stability).  I don't think that's a lot to ask, and if it is, please Edmund call me out and explain in detail why it isn't feasible.

And I also really hope RyokoTK didn't get banned for speaking his mind.  

[Banjo7J]

Really, you shouldn't be disappointed that there is no leaderboards in SMW, because A) they never said there would be and B) people could just put hidden paths obscured by layers to get fast times. Wouldn't you feel cheated if you spent 10 minutes perfecting your time just for someone to get faster then you because they made the level and know where the hidden Bandage Girl right at the start is? Everything else I completely agree with though.

[Jintek]

Really, you shouldn't be disappointed that there is no leaderboards in SMW, because A) they never said there would be and B) people could just put hidden paths obscured by layers to get fast times. Wouldn't you feel cheated if you spent 10 minutes perfecting your time just for someone to get faster then you because they made the level and know where the hidden Bandage Girl right at the start is? Everything else I completely agree with though.

Well that could be said of the main game too though.  There's a lot of levels where a shortcut is possible (that you may not know about) which gives faster LB times.  Take Breakdown's Meat Boy scores (who I consider one of the best MB players on Steam), there's a lot of levels where I have no idea how he got a certain time...there must have been a shortcut/time window somewhere.  So I mean it's the same overall value in the end.

With that said, I'd vote for leaderboards only for Featured chapters (or just chapter w/ a certain rating and amount of levels).  I'd be stupid to have a LB for every SMW level.

[Maruhai]

Be the father of my babies please.

[DD Commander]

I agree with most of this thread. My new version of my personal hell is where all my games are unplayably buggy and everything will be fixed in the "next update".

@maruhai: FML steal...steal..._steal.

[Maruhai]

@maruhai: FML steal...steal..._steal.

I don't even know what FML is.

[DD Commander]

@maruhai: FML steal...steal..._steal.

I don't even know what FML is.

Oh. OK. In that case it ws just very similar to a FML I read.

FML stands for Fuck my Life, where people send in embarassing moments and such. I just thought, seince it was started in France...

[Blatch]

So... RyokoTK actually did get banned for speaking his mind? _{<MegaMew'D>I hope he still makes more levels, though. I liked Starlight from what I played of it.<MegaMew'D>}

Basically, what Jintek said. The main reason I don't really care about A+ times being fixed, however, is that with so much levels available in the portal, it's not probable that most people will remember all of the levels they've played. Maybe it matters to all of you, but it doesn't for me! I just care about making my levels, and people enjoying them. I go through all the bugs, I don't really care about anything that can mar my Meaty experience.

Maybe I'm just different. Maybe I have a different perspective of the game. Regardless of all of this "We can't fix A+ times because we can't tell you why" BS, I still hope Iron Boy runs for notable custom chapters become possible somehow. That's really all I want.

[Stokes]

100% in agreement with RyokoTK.

[Zarkith]

Ryoko hasn't been banned, the OP is most likely an imposter. I'll have to verify this with him in the IRC though.
Ryoko deleted his account.  


Until then, here's something you should all keep in mind.

You did not pay for the Level Editor. You did not pay for Super Meat World.
You paid for Super Meat Boy as it was since release (After the first week of bugfixes of course). The game was complete when you bought it and at no point in time (After the first week) was it ever incomplete.
Super Meat World and the Level Editor were completely free additions*.

Let me break that down:

• Completely Free
• Additions

All you're entitled to from your purchase of Super Meat Boy was everything you've already had since release. Anything else is an extra bonus that didn't have to be made in the first place.


_{*Except for Team Meat who are paying for the level server out of pocket.}

[RockLeeSmile]

I'm really saddened that Edmund said "...no one will give a shit about SMW next year." That's a direct quote and not taken out of context.

I think I will! Especially since they are on record saying there will never be a SMB 2. Since there will never be a SMB 2, that means if anything, I will be more likely to be interested in SMW next year. I'm not going to just decide I never want to play a near-perfect platformer with almost infinite levels again... I still play Super Metroid several times all the way through every year... and that came out in 1994... and is only one experience.

I'm all for seeing where they go with their next game, but at least make damn sure that what you intended to create in the first place is complete before doing so.

[RockLeeSmile]

Ryoko hasn't been banned, the OP is most likely an imposter. I'll have to verify this with him in the IRC though.


Until then, here's something you should all keep in mind.

You did not pay for the Level Editor. You did not pay for Super Meat World.
You paid for Super Meat Boy as it was since release (After the first week of bugfixes of course). The game was complete when you bought it and at no point in time (After the first week) was it ever incomplete.
Super Meat World and the Level Editor were completely free additions*.

Let me break that down:

• Completely Free
• Additions

All you're entitled to from your purchase of Super Meat Boy was everything you've already had since release. Anything else is an extra bonus that didn't have to be made in the first place.


_{*Except for Team Meat who are paying for the level server out of pocket.}

No disrespect Zarkith, but they made the level editor one of the main selling points of the PC version before it was released... it was why I checked every day on Steam to see if I could pre-order it. I was really sad when I found out it was being pushed back to mid January instead of mid December. If it weren't for dev mode, I probably wouldn't know half the people I do on these forums.

[Phthalocyanine]

Considering RyokoTK's and Jintek's posts here's my thoughts.

First of all I think the initial game worth more than it's price. And the editor and level portal doubles it's value. That being said I find the complaints are kind of vague. You guys have a point though.

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"Other developers release updates for free because they feel an obligation to fix their broken games."

They don't feel shit. It's just business. I don't understand what's broken about SMB though. The game is like infinite fun. World-wide competition is non-existent in this type of games, there are always glitches and any speed run of any game use them. There's a guy finishing Portal (1) in like 11 minutes and I don't see the point of going crazy over it and demanding a fix for the broken game.

"The constant backing out on features that sold the game (to me at least) is really distressing and unprofessional."

Well other "developers" usually promise everything and nothing. And give you something that you cannot complain about it's "professionalism" and it's downright evil. If Team Meat was more "professional", they would be releasing level packs, new characters etc just to make more money. This is seen quite often in game industry, unfortunately.

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I'm not defending Team Meat though, I think they should fix all GUI problems of editor and game should be more stable, there's random crashes, crashes after minimizing the game, and pressing ALT bullshit. Hire some programmers or whatever, just get it done. Please.

edit: Also add a setting that allows people to change controls.