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[Dr. Weird]

Indie games which make it big do so because their developers care enough to listen to the community more often than not. To turn your back on what got you so far is generally a bad idea.
Granted, the leaderboards may be an unadvertised bonus, but nothing should be implemented at all if it won't be proper.

So yes, 100% agreement.

[ogmozero]

OK, things do need to change. All one has to do is look at Matt Thorson (he made Jumper <Ogmo>, which this game is loosely "based" off of). He created the Jumper series, An Untitled Story, and varying others (and worked on Runman: Race Around the World). He never charged for any of his games, and he did them mostly by himself. I've NEVER seen someone so devoted to making sure his fans are pleased in terms of keeping up with any bugs and/or features, especially when he charges nothing.

For that, I donated money to him, he earned it. Now, we have paid, why come TM (TWO people) can't be anywhere near as awesome? Unfortunately, file pirates (not one of them in this case) have no reason to pay for the game, not when it's glitchy still.

[RockLeeSmile]

I'm gonna play Terraria till SMB is fixed (or not fixed )... I think it may actually be BETTER than Minecraft. I suggest you all check it out as well... it's only 10 dollars and extremely polished for a game that wasn't in development for that long. It doesn't crash either... like, at all. This is a huge selling point for me.

[Stevolutionary]

Indie games which make it big do so because their developers care enough to listen to the community more often than not. To turn your back on what got you so far is generally a bad idea.

This is one of the biggest fallacies there is, in any creative industry you care to mention.

Indie creatives make it big because they make original and risky concepts. The 'community' more often than not have no idea what they're talking about as they have never had anything to do with making a game or film in their life, and often 'the community' consists only of about 100 voices claiming to represent the rest, who they do not in any way.

OK, things do need to change. All one has to do is look at Matt Thorson (he made Jumper <Ogmo>, which this game is loosely "based" off of). He created the Jumper series, An Untitled Story, and varying others (and worked on Runman: Race Around the World). He never charged for any of his games, and he did them mostly by himself. I've NEVER seen someone so devoted to making sure his fans are pleased in terms of keeping up with any bugs and/or features, especially when he charges nothing.

And where is he now may I ask? Still making no money. Why actually charging for your work is seen as such a crime is beyond me. Is this North Korea? Would you work 9-5 for free or based soley on tips or praise then accept condemnation for charging the going rate? If he could effectively monetise his work, I'm sure he'd jump at it.

Fuck pleasing 'fans' who expect the world on a stick solely in return for their fickle appreciation, like that puts food on the table. If you appreciate something you should pay for it, and as I said before, in terms of cost to audience use, the level editor and portal should probably have cost you all in the region of $100 each, so stop complaining about tiny imperfections and be bloody grateful.

Complete entitlement. You should never hold anyone to a standard you yourself would never live up to, and I can't imagine anyone here would work for free for 6 months.

[The_End254]

The level editor and portal should probably have cost you all in the region of $100 each, so stop complaining about tiny imperfections and be bloody grateful.

Complete entitlement. You should never hold anyone to a standard you yourself would never live up to, and I can't imagine anyone here would work for free for 6 months.

What the hell have you been smoking? $100 each? Please..

Work for free? They've been paid in game sales and merch, think before you type next time. I don't care if they go to make other games but they could at least come back to this now and again to make sure some broken elements work properly.

[Stevolutionary]

What the hell have you been smoking? $100 each? Please..

Work for free? They've been paid in game sales and merch, think before you type next time. I don't care if they go to make other games but they could at least come back to this now and again to make sure some broken elements work properly.

Jesus Christ, for the last time, you did not pay for the fucking level editor! What have you been smoking?

Think about it. How much do you think it would cost you to hire two reasonably sucessful developers for a month? I'd guess $3000 a piece minimum, so $6000 a month. Now do the math based on how long it took them to develop the free features, and how many people actually make use of them, and you'll see that the figure of costing them $100 a player is a very conservative estimate, and yet you whine like you're owed something? You sound like the kind of person who actually would complain when given a $100 that it was slightly crumpled. Ridiculous and childish.

And who gives a shit how much money they've made in game sales and merch anyway? Why don't you try to think for a change? That's for something completely different - the work they did on the main game and making the merch. It's a simple transaction and you got what you paid for - beyond that they don't owe you a damn thing. What are you, some kind of beggar? Would you work for free the next month if you'd done quite well financially last year? Give me a break!

Your $10 bought you a game, not a pair of fucking slaves. It's the hypocrisy that really gets me here, because not one person here griping would work for free for even a day, yet they act like Team Meat are the worst people in the world for calling it a day after "just" 6 months of it, and it's some kind of betrayal because apparently being part of some nebulous "community" or "fandom" entitles you to every part of their labour for free, forever, like your fickle praise pays their rents and provides them with nutrition.

Get over yourselves.

[The_End254]

Jesus Christ, for the last time, you did not pay for the fucking level editor! What have you been smoking?

Think about it. How much do you think it would cost you to hire two reasonably sucessful developers for a month? I'd guess $3000 a piece minimum, so $6000 a month. Now do the math based on how long it took them to develop the free features, and how many people actually make use of them, and you'll see that the figure of costing them $100 a player is a very conservative estimate, and yet you whine like you're owed something? You sound like the kind of person who actually would complain when given a $100 that it was slightly crumpled. Ridiculous and childish.

And who gives a shit how much money they've made in game sales and merch anyway? Why don't you try to think for a change? That's for something completely different - the work they did on the main game and making the merch. It's a simple transaction and you got what you paid for - beyond that they don't owe you a damn thing. What are you, some kind of beggar? Would you work for free the next month if you'd done quite well financially last year? Give me a break!

Your $10 bought you a game, not a pair of fucking slaves. It's the hypocrisy that really gets me here, because not one person here griping would work for free for even a day, yet they act like Team Meat are the worst people in the world for calling it a day after "just" 6 months of it, and it's some kind of betrayal because apparently being part of some nebulous "community" or "fandom" entitles you to every part of their labour for free, forever, like your fickle praise pays their rents and provides them with nutrition.

Get over yourselves.

First I couldn't give a flying fuck about the editor at this point, though many people bought the game just for that so they expect it to work properly. Am I wrong for wanting it to have the same features as the Xbox version? If it was said at the beginning or even sometime before the update was released that we weren't going to be able to have leaderboards for SMW I'm sure most people wouldn't have got annoyed. Can they even get rid of 0.00/0.01 etc times? Fucked if I know, if they can't it would have been nice to have been told and I'm not sifting through their twitter to see if they did, maybe post it on the blog at least.

I love this game I really do, I'm sorry for wanting the feature advertised to either work like the other version of the game/be informed on the blog, forums or whatever.

Do you not think that'd be better than "Oh yeah btw it's not going to be like Teh Internets, possibly ever" AFTER it's been put out.

[Zarkith]

Am I wrong for wanting it to have the same features as the Xbox version?

Yes, yes you are.


What you and many others seem to fail to realize is that not all PCs are the same. If you buy an XBox, it will be the same as nearly every other XBox. Disregarding the outward appearance, there's not much difference between models aside from hard drive capacity. They all function the same. If a game's bugs and glitches happen on one XBox, they happen on all XBoxes.

PCs on the otherhand, do not all have the same motherboards, the same graphics cards, the same processors, the same hard drives, the same card drivers, the same RAM, the same OS. Therefore, if a game's bugs and glitches happen on one PC, chances are they're only on a couple of others.

Now of course there are a few Super Meat World bugs that nearly everyone is experiencing, but another fact that everyone seems to be forgetting is that there is still going to be one more Super Meat Boy update.


If you all still wish to complain, then please do so after the Enter the Unknown update is released.



Also, a little fact about the two versions. Super Meat World streams its levels and does not actually save them anywhere, so once you quit a level or chapter and go back to it, you have to load it again from scratch. Teh Internets levels are directly saved, so it's much easier to track your progress on them. This is just the most noticeable difference between the two versions of the game. There are subtler incompatibilities that make level saving in SMW too difficult to implement without spending a large amount of time that's ridiculous compared to the small percentage of players requesting it.

[Jintek]

Super Meat World streams its levels and does not actually save them anywhere, so once you quit a level or chapter and go back to it, you have to load it again from scratch. Teh Internets levels are directly saved, so it's much easier to track your progress on them.

Then I guess we have the answer to how we could get A+/completion in SMW for "Featured Chapters".  Save them directly.  Same thing we've been saying for months, and not too difficult to implement, either.

There doesn't need to be completion/A+ for every chapter or level in SMW, only the AAA Featured chapters would need it.  Maybe base it on user ratings of some kind (if they worked), or Edmund could simply pick and choose the Featured chapters like now.  Overall, the solution isn't impossible, isn't extremely costly, and would make the ENTIRE fanbase a lot happier.

[The_End254]

Am I wrong for wanting it to have the same features as the Xbox version?

Yes, yes you are.


What you and many others seem to fail to realize is that not all PCs are the same. If you buy an XBox, it will be the same as nearly every other XBox. Disregarding the outward appearance, there's not much difference between models aside from hard drive capacity. They all function the same. If a game's bugs and glitches happen on one XBox, they happen on all XBoxes.

PCs on the otherhand, do not all have the same motherboards, the same graphics cards, the same processors, the same hard drives, the same card drivers, the same RAM, the same OS. Therefore, if a game's bugs and glitches happen on one PC, chances are they're only on a couple of others.

Now of course there are a few Super Meat World bugs that nearly everyone is experiencing, but another fact that everyone seems to be forgetting is that there is still going to be one more Super Meat Boy update.


If you all still wish to complain, then please do so after the Enter the Unknown update is released.



Also, a little fact about the two versions. Super Meat World streams its levels and does not actually save them anywhere, so once you quit a level or chapter and go back to it, you have to load it again from scratch. Teh Internets levels are directly saved, so it's much easier to track your progress on them. This is just the most noticeable difference between the two versions of the game. There are subtler incompatibilities that make level saving in SMW too difficult to implement without spending a large amount of time that's ridiculous compared to the small percentage of players requesting it.

I am going reserve judgement till after the last update but is having SMW save levels that are kb in size that hard to implement? Surely that's easier than having them stream every single time then the times could be saved like normal levels. If there's not going to be leaderboards then people on the forums can just make a thread an use screenshots to post times so they can speed run.

ANYWAY, I'm sick of all this pointless arguing and people acting like their opinion is the only one that is correct.

I'll see how it is after the next update, I still like the game and have played it more than most others in many years so that's why I actually bother to post on here.

[ogmozero]

OK, things do need to change. All one has to do is look at Matt Thorson (he made Jumper <Ogmo>, which this game is loosely "based" off of). He created the Jumper series, An Untitled Story, and varying others (and worked on Runman: Race Around the World). He never charged for any of his games, and he did them mostly by himself. I've NEVER seen someone so devoted to making sure his fans are pleased in terms of keeping up with any bugs and/or features, especially when he charges nothing.

And where is he now may I ask? Still making no money. Why actually charging for your work is seen as such a crime is beyond me. Is this North Korea? Would you work 9-5 for free or based soley on tips or praise then accept condemnation for charging the going rate? If he could effectively monetise his work, I'm sure he'd jump at it.

Fuck pleasing 'fans' who expect the world on a stick solely in return for their fickle appreciation, like that puts food on the table. If you appreciate something you should pay for it, and as I said before, in terms of cost to audience use, the level editor and portal should probably have cost you all in the region of $100 each, so stop complaining about tiny imperfections and be bloody grateful.

Complete entitlement. You should never hold anyone to a standard you yourself would never live up to, and I can't imagine anyone here would work for free for 6 months.

I'm not saying he shouldn't charge money, though YMM does have a deal with Adult Swim currently. My point is that I find it silly that someone who doesn't charge money puts more work into his GAMES (not singular, like Team Meat) than TM does when they DO charge money. Prime example: Look at AUS (An Untitled Story) and Jumper 2. He released an editor, and (at least when I was big into his stuff in high school) a dedicated fan base, who DID donate to him. That was the best part, we helped him for being awesome. Now that we have put money into this project, I'd like to see better service with it. It's not like I'm not going to play the game at this point, the money has been paid, and I have the product, and I've enjoyed what I've played thus far. I just feel that they need to put more testing into their product, and FIX IT'S PROBLEMS.

Sure, I'm a speed runner, call that whatever you want, but I am another customer. Taking this into example: I'm also a Rock Band player. I buy songs from the Rock Band Network, and pay attention to what team created the chart. There are a couple users who I will buy everything from, regardless of if I like it 100%, because they make amazing accurate and fun charts. It's a dedicated fan-base. People don't pay attention as much to the good things about something when it comes to word of mouth, unless it's un-fucking-believable, they instead pay attention to the bad. Considering that TM isn't pulling their weight in that respect (I do enjoy that they release so many off items, like the comic, plushies, and OST, aside from hosting the server themselves), it's not going well.

I'm not asking for the many new features that people want, and I do understand what they have gone through. I fix computers, and set up networks (and the like), and if I fix someones computer, and something goes bad with it, I don't say "oh well lol", I go back and I make sure that I'm going to be the person they call when things go bad again. The same principle should be applied here, THAT'S all I'm saying.

[edmund]

Ok, im responding even though ive said most of this before.

First off, Fucking relax, i read this thread from start to finish and it seems to just be here to upset everyone and by the end the shits thats flying around doesnt even make sense...

now that you are all relaxed, ill try and re-explain what i can.

we love our fans, please do start shooting off shit about how we dont care anymore about bla bla bla, its just total bullshit. every morning we wakeup to tons of emails from fans and respond to them all, we take time out of our day to talk to anyone who has questions and help anyone who has issues. we love our fans, but if you come out the gates blindly bashing us, then demanded a question answered you will probably be ignored.

now on to the facts.

1. We have and ALWAYS will update any major bugs in SMB, Tommy actually lost many nights of sleep doing udates as fast as he could to make sure the game ran smoothly on everyones pc. adding multipal levels of detail settings, key mapping support and fixing every major bug that was sent to him because he cared about the game and the fans. this has lasted 6 months and is still happening. to say we dont care about bugs or our fans is a huge insult.

2. the level editor we promised in jan was basically a released devmode with no upload support or super meat world. we actually went out of our way to buy a server, design SMW and rig up and upload system with steam user names connected all because we wanted the fans to have something more. When devmode was hacked out on the 3rd day of release we supported it and even added these forums so peopel coudl share their work. we made SMW because of the fans... SMW wasnt ever promised at all early on it was simplly a free update we spent a lot of hard work and money on so users could share their work. we asked for nothing in return other then to understand that the level editor was in Beta and not everything in SMW would function as desired.

3. Steam doesnt allow for leaderboards on every user created chapter, its not possible for us to do.

4. There is no way to get chapters to save, we have tried hard to do this but it caused way to many issues.

5. we do have a fix for the 0 time bug, but it means restarting all leaderboards. we have talked about this many times and the response is always "we would rather keep the 0's". and even after the 0's were gone.. people could still hack the game and add them.

6. we are working on a big update that should be out soon that should fix most/all bugs in SMW as well as the lag between levels in the latest update. it will also hopefully make it so everyone can upload chapters without a crash (this is a very hard one to track down because we can recreate it). This update will also add "the unknown" feature and a few other small bonus's we have been working on.

conclusion:

Most of you are very off base here, its HUGELY insulting to say we dont care about our fans and are "taking the money and running" this is very obviously not the case at all. Those of you who wonder why i might snap back at people who accuse us of not caring i hope you can understand what it feels like when you really bend over backwards to give people something more then was promised and they bitch about how it has a crack in it or is missing a piece.

in the end ill say it again, fuckin relax, enjoy what you have, we do our best to fix what we can and if something is missing, it obviously isnt because we are lazy, its simply because its not doable, or will break the game...

i really hope this comment isnt followed by "BUT WHY CANT YOU DO THIS!"

seriously people, just be cool and understanding.. think logicly and dont jump to fucking crazy ass conclusions.

we obviously care a great deal about our fans.

-Edmund

[Blatch]

As soon as I saw Edmund's comment being the newest one in the thread, I just knew that "Oh-boy. This is gonna be the big one...". And it was.

Now, I guess the only thing people have to get over is the lack of saving level progress. Look at it, it's not like there's gonna be any actual level count of how many levels you've beaten in SMW. There's really not all that much progress, mostly because there's tons of levels coming out All. Of. The. Time. And what would you like for beating all of those levels, an achievement?

This doesn't have to be taken as "Son, I am Dissapoint" on the fans part. I just enjoy the levels that come to me, and comment on them, and that's it, then I move onto another batch. Can't get much simpler than that.

Bottom line? Everybody that's still lamenting (Unless it's due to the lack of level process) about SMW, is just a rebel without a cause. Read the passage Edmund typed again (With love ) and see if you still have a valid point to argue with him. Still pretty sad about RyokoTK, however. :(

[ogmozero]

Well, I'm glad you took the time to post in here Ed, thanks! n.n

I'm very glad to see that you're still paying attention, I just didn't see it enough.

I'm not going to say you guys are 100% to blame on it, as Microsoft did kind of dick you guys around, but I never see (and I look on twitter) what bugs you're fixing, or what have you. Also, cast a vote on that whole "0 times" bit, curiosity begs to see just how many of the forumers would prefer it. =/

[RockLeeSmile]