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[valzi]

You can change your vote if you change your mind!

The poll question is talking about resetting the leaderboards after Team Meat makes it harder to cheat. If they could somehow tell which scores were bad and remove them, that would be even better. However, this poll is working under the assumption that they can only prevent future cheating.

Of course, leaderboards can always be hacked, but SMB is problematic in that people have even accidentally achieved impossible scores. Also, as we've discussed, some have achieved scores with characters which are no longer allowed to count toward scoring at all, leaving some players with illegitimate times.

My vote is yes, reset the leaderboards if it's the only way to clear the bad times.  

[TunnelingEffect]

Resetting them won't fix anything - some people have worked really hard at speed running already (myself included)

Steve / accidental 0.00 times are being removed eventually as far as I know.

[roboticaust]

In order to do something on this scale, the game would have to be patched so that all bullshit time completions are removed from the save itself so people can redo their pseudo times and minecraft times.  Otherwise they would just submit the lowest time over again to the leaderboards upon clearing a level.  Also, I'm fairly sure the global leaderboard is calculated internally by the game itself, so even without clearing anything, the bullshit times would end up back on there instantly.  I think a few validation loops need to be added to the program to make it impossible for people to cheat engine.  Either that or my suggestion for a finalized ghost feature needs to be taken seriously, which would remove the ability for people to cheat their asses off.

[valzi]

Steve / accidental 0.00 times are being removed eventually as far as I know.

Who told you that?

[roboticaust]

Steve / accidental 0.00 times are being removed eventually as far as I know.

Who told you that?

Tommy made a steam post ages ago saying it would happen eventually.  It hasn't yet but most of us are still clinging to hope.

[valzi]

In order to do something on this scale, the game would have to be patched so that all bullshit time completions are removed from the save itself so people can redo their pseudo times and minecraft times.  Otherwise they would just submit the lowest time over again to the leaderboards upon clearing a level.  Also, I'm fairly sure the global leaderboard is calculated internally by the game itself, so even without clearing anything, the bullshit times would end up back on there instantly.  I think a few validation loops need to be added to the program to make it impossible for people to cheat engine.  Either that or my suggestion for a finalized ghost feature needs to be taken seriously, which would remove the ability for people to cheat their asses off.

Completely agreed, roboticaust.

In case anyone is confused, the poll question is talking about resetting the leaderboards after Team Meat makes it harder to cheat. If they could somehow tell which scores were bad and remove them, that would be even better. However, this poll is working under the assumption that they can't.

You can change your vote if you weren't thinking in this context when you voted.

[roboticaust]

In order to do something on this scale, the game would have to be patched so that all bullshit time completions are removed from the save itself so people can redo their pseudo times and minecraft times.  Otherwise they would just submit the lowest time over again to the leaderboards upon clearing a level.  Also, I'm fairly sure the global leaderboard is calculated internally by the game itself, so even without clearing anything, the bullshit times would end up back on there instantly.  I think a few validation loops need to be added to the program to make it impossible for people to cheat engine.  Either that or my suggestion for a finalized ghost feature needs to be taken seriously, which would remove the ability for people to cheat their asses off.

Completely agreed, roboticaust.

In case anyone is confused, the poll question is talking about resetting the leaderboards after Team Meat makes it harder to cheat. If they could somehow tell which scores were bad and remove them, that would be even better. However, this poll is working under the assumption that they can't.

My suggestion awhile back was to finish the ghosting feature already in game for replays and bosses like Dr Fetus and Brownie.  Sorta like Mario Kart where you can see the ghost of your previous fastest attempt.  The code actually saves most runs in an extremely small format that could append rather easily to a file and also submitted online in the process.  In this manner, you could race other players ghosts or your own, also you could have a system setup to hold the top 25 or so for a level with only the top 10 available to the player.  Any flagged as non-legit could be moderated and that user banned from future submissions to any leaderboard.  Reason I picked 25 was so that if one is removed, a valid top 10 could still exist.  It would take very minimal server space and very minimal bandwidth.  But in order to do something like that, a patch would have to come about that force resets every level with a time submission element.  This would make it possible for people with incredibly fast times to actually be able to submit a ghost and would also discourage a lot of cheaters from putting forth the effort to cheat again.

[TunnelingEffect]

Steve / accidental 0.00 times are being removed eventually as far as I know.

Who told you that?

Tommy made a steam post ages ago saying it would happen eventually.  It hasn't yet but most of us are still clinging to hope.

Thank you good sir, I knew I saw that info somewhere.

I like your idea, but who knows what will happen at this point?

A lot of people are making the best of a bad situation already and weeding out what is actually real and what isn't.

[valzi]

A lot of people are making the best of a bad situation already and weeding out what is actually real and what isn't.

There isn't a way to do that.

[TunnelingEffect]

There's logic and reasoning, trial and error. Like I said, people are finding out what is possible.

When it gets down to it: yeah there is no possible way to discern what is real and what isn't. There is similar discussion going on in the *highest rank in a level* thread. Some guys speed running XOXO I think.

There are a lot of obvious fake times - and in some cases not even possible with the character listed. (Looking at you 5-2x #20)

People intentionally cheating on levels to make a time look real enough to doubt ourselves is where the trouble starts. There aren't a lot of those people from what I've seen though.

[valzi]

People intentionally cheating on levels to make a time look real enough to doubt ourselves is where the trouble starts. There aren't a lot of those people from what I've seen though.

I have no idea how you'd be able tell there aren't a lot of them. I basically just assume active people in this forum and people who have a lot of hours in the game aren't cheating. Otherwise, I have reason to suspect all other high scores.

[FlipTaco]

A mass leaderboard reset means that MANY people (every person) would be losing their scores. By deleting the scores of the few cheaters, we're also deleting the scores of the many legitimate players which is doing much worse to the community than we're gaining out of it by freeing up the top 5/10/15 spots on each leaderboard taken by cheaters. I just don't think it's worth it.

However, if there is a way to properly weed out the cheaters and delete only their scores, hell yeah drop some nukes on them.

[KennyRules]

A mass leaderboard reset means that MANY people (every person) would be losing their scores. By deleting the scores of the few cheaters, we're also deleting the scores of the many legitimate players which is doing much worse to the community than we're gaining out of it by freeing up the top 5/10/15 spots on each leaderboard taken by cheaters. I just don't think it's worth it.

However, if there is a way to properly weed out the cheaters and delete only their scores, hell yeah drop some nukes on them.

Agreed. The loss isn't worth the gain.

However, what if there was a way to upload automatically a replay with your high score? You could download / watch every single replay and then perhaps contest it and if it is proven to be false, get deleted? Though that's all theoretical and quite hard to implement for Team Meat right now I imagine. Still, it is a possible fix.

[valzi]

Good argument by FlipTaco. I've become a bit unsure now.

[roboticaust]

This is why leaderboard participation should be optional like it is in world of goo.  If you participate, you are held accountable for your actions and can be banned at any time from participating.  My suggestion above still stands, the addition of participating at the cost of wiping out all your times can certainly be added for those unwilling to start over (and really unconcerned with leaderboards in general).  There is some coding involved of course, but most of it should already be made into classes and functions already, especially after the addition of the level portal.  I don't think my idea is at all out of the question or unreasonable and would be more than happy to moderate it so Tommy and Edmund don't have to.

I'm editing this in for good measure... those of us who are die-hard about our times will gladly redo any and all levels even at the pain of reliving them again.  Granted it does suck, but a lot of us are more than willing for a clean leaderboard.