next »

[MegaMew]

I would get rid of the clouds in the Kid Icarus stage.  Its based off the first level which is supposed to be the underworld.  The clouds just make it look like night time.

That is a good point, but doing say a hell tileset would confuse people I think. Most imagine Kid Icarus as taking place in the clouds, even though storywise that's only the final world. It'd be anachronistic to make it look like a sky level, but would probably fit better with how people remember it. It's definitely a design dilemma, and I can see why he went with clouds.

I just think the edges need work mainly, as when the level is a solid rectangle, unless they conform to the borders of the level, it can just look like it's a container floating in space a little. I know the video has black borders at either side, but that's not the game - it's Youtube turning a 4:3 vid into 16:9 and letterboxing it. In the game you'd be supposed to imagine there was more scenery out of shot.

I'm not saying he should use a Hell tileset, I'm saying make the background pure black.  If he's trying to recreate the appearance of the old game then that's the solution.  Will it look pretty?  No, not really but that's the point.

I think the camera should be pulled up a little so that there isn't anything visible outside of the giant rectangle.  Also I love the little chamber with the enemy in it as a nod to the fact that in those levels you could walk off screen onto the other side.  I would remove the wall on the right hand side though.  It ruins the image.

[nipple]

I want to father this chapter's baby. 





Yeah... 

[sh00takai]

I would get rid of the clouds in the Kid Icarus stage.  Its based off the first level which is supposed to be the underworld.  The clouds just make it look like night time.

That is a good point, but doing say a hell tileset would confuse people I think. Most imagine Kid Icarus as taking place in the clouds, even though storywise that's only the final world. It'd be anachronistic to make it look like a sky level, but would probably fit better with how people remember it. It's definitely a design dilemma, and I can see why he went with clouds.

I just think the edges need work mainly, as when the level is a solid rectangle, unless they conform to the borders of the level, it can just look like it's a container floating in space a little. I know the video has black borders at either side, but that's not the game - it's Youtube turning a 4:3 vid into 16:9 and letterboxing it. In the game you'd be supposed to imagine there was more scenery out of shot.

Thanks Stevolutionary. I was pretty amazed to get re-tweeted by SMB. About the Bomberman stage, don't forget there are also rocket launchers inside some of the locked boxes. I think getting the bandage needs some real work in this map. Finding the right keys to open hidden passages to get the keys outside the main area is going to need some exploration. Also, there's a little twist in the very end before getting the bandage. Nothing deadly, more like a reminder of the good old "these-tricks-seem-impossible-to-find-out-without-a-guide" NES times. Hehe, Castlevania II came immediately to my mind...

Regarding the Kid Icarus map, very good points from both of you guys. The main problem in the visual side of the map is it's size, which is about 32x140 tiles. I cannot continue adding tiles to the sides and bottom for it already leans to the boundaries. It was the first "real" map I made and I thought I could add (fore and back layer) tiles anywhere outside the initial box because all the other object types are free from those boundaries, but no.

I will change the background, remove the clouds and make it pitch black or at least very dark. I was clearly deluded by my childhood memories there to add those clouds and stars! I will also resize the map if possible and add some decorations / modify the edges to make it look more organic. If it's not possible to resize the level the way I want, I could create it again from scratch for it's such a small map. The visual issues have bugged me a bit all the time and I strongly feel a need to fix them.

Focusing more on recreating the original challenge by adding red slugs sounds very good, but I tried it already in the first version of the map and for some reason the devmode crashes immediately if I modify the properties of red slugs. If I put them on move, I get an error msg saying that "char.xxx could not be opened" or something. I'll check the accurate message tonight and try to find a fix for it. Until that, I can't really continue with the idea.

Also, like MegaMew mentioned, the camera is a bit too far at the moment. I'll put it a bit closer in the end. I'll also remove the blocks from the right side on that particular height to bring the level visually closer to the original.

[PyRo]

I love how well constructed and difficult the Zelda and Kid Icarus ones are. Your Kid Icarus map is easy on the eyes 

[Stevolutionary]

I'm not saying he should use a Hell tileset, I'm saying make the background pure black.  If he's trying to recreate the appearance of the old game then that's the solution.  Will it look pretty?  No, not really but that's the point.

I don't think a little artistic license is too bad as afterall, he used subtle hints of hell in the Zelda level and if anything it improved it. The issue with NES games is too many had solid colour backdrops, and you'd have the issue that a lot would look very similar or bland if he went totally down that road.

I was just commenting that if he decided to do the same as he did with Zelda and hint at a backdrop, i'd prefer sky to hell, as even though hell is where it's set, sky is how people will (incorrectly) remember it - which is why Sh00t put clouds on in the first place.

[sh00takai]

I'm not saying he should use a Hell tileset, I'm saying make the background pure black.  If he's trying to recreate the appearance of the old game then that's the solution.  Will it look pretty?  No, not really but that's the point.

I don't think a little artistic license is too bad as afterall, he used subtle hints of hell in the Zelda level and if anything it improved it. The issue with NES games is too many had solid colour backdrops, and you'd have the issue that a lot would look very similar or bland if he went totally down that road.

I was just commenting that if he decided to do the same as he did with Zelda and hint at a backdrop, i'd prefer sky to hell, as even though hell is where it's set, sky is how people will (incorrectly) remember it - which is why Sh00t put clouds on in the first place.

Hmm. You're right. If I keep the visual appearance too faithful to the original, _many_ of the levels on the current list will have a solid, depressing background... I ended up adding some elements to Zelda and Bomberman stages because they felt a bit too cold without that small extra detail for the eye. Stars and clouds... I should probably keep them then.

[Phleabt!]

nonetheless, you're doing a great hell of a job and though I never played most of the games portrayed here ( NES wasn't very common here in Romania ) , the video links are very helpful.Keep up the good work and always improve :)

[MegaMew]

I'm not saying he should use a Hell tileset, I'm saying make the background pure black.  If he's trying to recreate the appearance of the old game then that's the solution.  Will it look pretty?  No, not really but that's the point.

I don't think a little artistic license is too bad as afterall, he used subtle hints of hell in the Zelda level and if anything it improved it. The issue with NES games is too many had solid colour backdrops, and you'd have the issue that a lot would look very similar or bland if he went totally down that road.

I was just commenting that if he decided to do the same as he did with Zelda and hint at a backdrop, i'd prefer sky to hell, as even though hell is where it's set, sky is how people will (incorrectly) remember it - which is why Sh00t put clouds on in the first place.

Hmm. You're right. If I keep the visual appearance too faithful to the original, _many_ of the levels on the current list will have a solid, depressing background... I ended up adding some elements to Zelda and Bomberman stages because they felt a bit too cold without that small extra detail for the eye. Stars and clouds... I should probably keep them then.

What if you replaced the clouds with fog or something.  It might look a little more "undergroundy"  It may not be in the 8bit tilesets though.  Either way, its your level set and you can obviously do what you want with it.  I don't think there's anything wrong with creative liberties and you're right about the Zelda level looking great, but clouds and stars can't be found underground.  It would be like if you decided to make the Metroid level take place at a beach.

[sh00takai]

What if you replaced the clouds with fog or something.  It might look a little more "undergroundy"  It may not be in the 8bit tilesets though.  Either way, its your level set and you can obviously do what you want with it.  I don't think there's anything wrong with creative liberties and you're right about the Zelda level looking great, but clouds and stars can't be found underground.  It would be like if you decided to make the Metroid level take place at a beach.

Yeah, I tried to find fog + lighting effects but I guess they are not included in the "glitch" / "retro 1" tilesets. I know it all comes down to personal choices, but whenever issues like this appear I try to evaluate and visualize all ideas to find the best possible compromise. The best thing is that you initially pointed out the visual mistake! The rest is now up to me, but I may have an idea that probably satisfies everyone. If the clouds can be made big as hell and set to move veeery slowly in any direction, I can probably make a very interesting surrounding for the level.

[MegaMew]

Yeah, I tried to find fog + lighting effects but I guess they are not included in the "glitch" / "retro 1" tilesets. I know it all comes down to personal choices, but whenever issues like this appear I try to evaluate and visualize all ideas to find the best possible compromise. The best thing is that you initially pointed out the visual mistake! The rest is now up to me, but I may have an idea that probably satisfies everyone. If the clouds can be made big as hell and set to move veeery slowly in any direction, I can probably make a very interesting surrounding for the level.

I'm sure you'll think of something.  2 suggestions (don't know if either are possible, or the best solution, but they may be worth trying if they interest you):

1) Make the clouds a darker color and stationary.  It may make them look like rocks or something

2) Remove the clouds entirely but make a shit ton of stars.  It would look like sparkles from the underground levels in Super Mario World or something.

[Cheeseburger Supreme]

I think you should put some disapearing block mazes in the Mega Man level.

[sh00takai]

I think you should put some disapearing block mazes in the Mega Man level.

Nah, I hate those things! Maybe someone else wants to make a level involving them.

***

Tiny update. I updated all three "finished" levels to a point where I can confidently say they are ready to leave my hands. New pictures in the first page. Bandages added to all levels, Kid Icarus map recreated, Bomberman stage's pick order changed and player forced to unlock rocket launcher boxes etc. Good stuff, I guess!

[MegaMew]

I love them.  Kid Icarus also looks much cleaner now, too.  Before the end was a bit of a cluster fuck.  Good bandages too.  Can't wait for the finished product.

[sh00takai]

Update.

Faxanadu level is finished and a video can be found from the topic post. It was a pretty big map to create and I hope the result pleases your eyes. One more to go until I release the first levels for download.

[Stevolutionary]

Love the background to Faxanadu! Really, really good job!

My only criticism with your levels are the bandages. I'm not a huge fan of putting bandages in fan created levels as they serve no purpose, and even then, feel they should be limited to a few per chapter as in the main game rather than one per level, but that's not my issue.

The problem with your bandages is that they take almost as long as the level to get, or require you to backtrack to the start, or go into a completely new area - all of which detract from the actual level design rather than complement it, and all are unecessarily hard. This isn't a complaint just against yours specifically, but something that seems to plague most of the Dev mode levels I see, as they all try to one up each other with hardcore bandage challenges.

If you look at the main game, only two bandages (to my memory) made you backtrack massively, and they were two of the most hated ones (Skyscraper 2, and a Salt Factory missile tower one if I remember rightly)

I really like your level designs, but feel your bandages really detract from them, rather than add to them. Ideally, a bandage challenge should be something that you should be able to complete in the course of the level, but by doing something skillful to get. Annoying bandages (especially as there is no reward for them) may impress people on the forum and fellow level editors, but will only alientate the average player who downloads it IMO.

Your levels stand up on their own artistic and design merits - I just think hardcore difficulty levels weaken them rather than enhance them.