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Stevolutionary
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« on: February 21, 2011, 04:40:13 PM » |
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Why does everybody's fan chapter (with the exception of Cramps) seem to come with an absurd level of difficulty?
In my mind it ruins the elegance of the design, and is pandering to a very small demographic of veterans rather than a wider audience. If memory serves, the 360 version has 165,000 on the leaderboards, yet only about 500 people have 310'd the game. Thus in giving your levels Cotton Alley Dark World+ levels of difficulty, you're severely restricting the amount of people who will appreciate them.
Cramps got XBLA'd because as well as being brilliantly designed, it is fair and balanced - something most fan chapters are not. Even Team Meat have commented on some fan chapters being too hard. If you're making your levels for the 50 or so people who regularly post here, then fair enough, but if you want to find a real audience, I suggest people start to tone it down a bit.
And no, i'm not complaining because i'm bad at the game or anything. I A+'d it in the space of a couple of days and was the 18th or so person on Live to do so. I appreciate a challenge as much as anyone, but I appreciate good design more. Anyone can make an absurdly hard level. Real skill comes in making an enjoyable and fair one.
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Maruhai
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« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2011, 04:52:18 PM » |
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Because everyone are beginners that don't know how to make a difficulty curve.
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Stevolutionary
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« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2011, 04:58:28 PM » |
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Because everyone are beginners that don't know how to make a difficulty curve.
Maybe. It just seems to me that some people's entire goal is to one-up the game in difficulty, which I feel is misguided. If you're puposely making a hardcore chapter, that's different, but I just see so many great concepts compromised because of this difficulty arms race that seems to be going on. In a rush to impress people on the forum, they forget not to alienate the average player. |
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Maruhai
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« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2011, 05:02:24 PM » |
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Yeah, creating levels are not a contest of the hardest one, but a contest of the most fun to play.
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DD Commander
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« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2011, 05:21:11 PM » |
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I agree all the way. I got a few maps today and I ended skipping most. MAKE IT FAIR  |
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What are you doing reading this? The Forum is out there!  |
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StealthAngel667
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« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2011, 05:33:34 PM » |
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The beauty of the original 310 levels in SMB is that all levels capture a certain challenge, but still manage to stay bite-sized. Sure, you can try some of them for multiple minutes and fail over and over, but all levels look 'doable' because they are fairly short and not every jump is a freaking pixel-perfect one.
The average custom level does not understand this concept, nor does it do a good job of capturing it. Most of them focus on some of the toughest challenges in the normal game and, sadly, place many of those in a row to create a level. That, or they include trial-and-error parts where the challenge is not just determined by the player's skill like in SMB, but also by patience and luck. That, in my opinion, does not make for a fun game.
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PsychedelicEyeball
Level 1
Posts: 194
They will build you a new civilization.
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« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2011, 06:11:04 PM » |
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Level editing for this game is still in its infancy, so obviously people will want to try out wacky stuff for their levels instead of making their stages more accessible. Also, people will generally design levels in order to suit their competence in the game, therefore may be too hard for most other people. Correct me if I'm wrong, but most of the people who are designing maps for the time being are people who either 100% the whole game or are very close to do so. Also, due to the fact that the current level editor is not user-friendly, it also diminish the range of people that make levels so I bet most people who are still new to the game will not bother learn devmode.
I wager that once the official level editor will be up, things will shake up a bit in the difficulty department. Also, people will learn how to make levels that are more balanced over time.
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The Incident - My Super Meat Boy chapter, finally up and ready to play on Super Meat World!
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RockLeeSmile
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« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2011, 06:13:46 PM » |
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Did I start this conversation? |
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soad667
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Posts: 81
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« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2011, 06:19:29 PM » |
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Totally agree. Edmund saw what was coming (judging between others by the levels made for the original MeatBoy) and gave an obvious advice: don't make all your levels this fuckin hard. I hope people will follow that as the time passes.
Well, when everyone gets their hands on the editor (except the people that have the time/patience to bother with the devmode as it is now), i'm sure we'll see a lot of average/easier stuff (quality is another matter).
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Karoo
Level 1
Posts: 167
lol, "Girl Boy" achivement
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« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2011, 06:59:25 PM » |
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and this is why cramps is in teh internets and other chapters arn't.
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cousinoer5
Level 0
Posts: 80
600 years of progress, lost because of you!
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« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2011, 07:20:29 PM » |
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(A post from someone who this thread is directed at)
My custom chapter "Life's a Glitch" was me experimenting to see how far I can push the difficulty. It was basically me playing around, seeing what the limits are, and trying out new gimmicks. I tried to make it so the difficulty wasn't just because sawblades were everywhere.
I came from making levels where you had infinite save states and rewinds (Super Mario World hacking), so I was still in that mind frame when I was making levels. I'm aware that evil levels are very niche, but I'm a video game masochist, making levels for people who want more challenge. The next chapter I make will be much easier (but still challenging). After a while of making evil levels, I'll need a push in the right direction, because coming off testing Life's a Glitch, I may think something is really easy, where a majority think it's impossible (also the creator advantage doesn't help either), but I am interested in making more sensible levels (though I am working on an advanced SMB's chapter 7, so I'm not totally done with the evilness just yet!).
So yeah, that's my story.
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RockLeeSmile
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« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2011, 07:24:04 PM » |
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Karoo
Level 1
Posts: 167
lol, "Girl Boy" achivement
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« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2011, 07:35:55 PM » |
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but its true. I like levels like that or even chapters as long as theres variety in the mechanics and the levels are just out of my ability. then I play them with a checkpoint after every super difficult obstacle. all my levels are either at the cap of my ability or taken to extremes for a concept.
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MegaMew
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« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2011, 07:44:46 PM » |
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I attribute this to the fact that only the most hardcore fans are willing to mess with devmode. When the real editor hits the sane people will be able to make some doable levels. I wouldn't worry too much yet.
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Patashu
Level 1
Posts: 192
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« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2011, 07:49:52 PM » |
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Me and my brother make levels that we enjoy playing and beating, even if it takes a while to do so. Anyway, the level editor requires you to pass the levels you make, so no one will EVER be allowed to complain about levels being 'impossibly hard'.  |
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« Last Edit: February 21, 2011, 07:52:20 PM by Patashu »
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Super Meat Boy
