NovaSilisko
Level 2
 
Posts: 269
That guy who finally beat the game
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« on: February 24, 2011, 05:26:02 PM » |
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Recently, I thought up a set of guidelines for anyone looking to make things for SMB - FFFOCA.
Keep It Fair I cannot stress this enough. A level that stands out from the skill curve too much, an extremely long level with the highest challenge at the very end, or something that requires near-impossible timing and precision: It tends to be one that angers players more than any other. Don't try to get the player angry, and your levels will be enjoyed by many more people.
Keep It Fast Not many people like waiting, in any situation. Just standing around waiting for a platform to arrive, or for a saw to move, tends to break up the overall pace of the level more than should be needed. In general it's much more fun(and entertaining) to be constantly on your toes, hopping off walls and narrowly dodging saws. Always try to make a speedrunning route, with absolutely minimal waiting times.
Keep It Fun The last - but likely the most important - point is simple: If a level is not fun to at least one group in some way, nobody will like it. The definition of "fun" varies from demographic to demographic, so choose your target player type wisely - It will benefit you and your levels' reputation in the long run.
Thanks Stevolutionary Keep it Original Too many levels will be retreads (hardcore or otherwise) of existing mechanics we have seen a lot already in the main game. Others will be simply basic copies of sections from other games. Unless your levels are original, they will simply fail to capture anyone's attention and just sink into obscurity. Before you create a level, you need to ask yourself "Has this been done before?"
Keep it Consistent Levels should have an overarching theme to justify them as a chapter rather than a ragtag collection of individual levels. Themes can be anything from the visual style, the challenges presented, the overall difficulty, or even the message they are meant to convey. Try to somehow have a common thread running through your chapter.
Thanks roboticaust Keep it Appealing Your levels may be amazing, complex and full of fun, but if you do not spend time trying to build appropriate visual elements such as lighting effects, layer color filters, decoration both foreground and background; you will be making rather stale levels to say the least. There are dozens of differing types for each block, use em. The editor has 7 layers to work with and tons of decorations, so spice it up!
Thanks Psychopath Keep it Simple For the most part, overly complex puzzles in a game like Super Meat Boy will only serve to anger players. People play the game to run fast, jump and dodge obstacles, and save Bandage Girl; most people don't want their gaming experience to be bogged down by some puzzle unless it can be executed seamlessly. Additionally, stages should not be literally impossible to clear on the first run (a complete leap of faith to land on a 1-block platform 5 screens below is not engaging in the slightest). A player should be able to look at a stage, and be able to tell what they need to do fairly easily (at least a seasoned player can) with the rest coming down to perfecting one's own timing and reflexes.
These guidelines don't need to be followed to the letter, but rather are intended as exactly that - guidelines. They're flexible, but don't throw them out altogether.
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« Last Edit: February 24, 2011, 08:18:17 PM by NovaSilisko »
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roboticaust
Level 3
  
Posts: 319
The game is about meat parkour, not standing still
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« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2011, 05:27:38 PM » |
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I prefer keep it FUUUUUUUUU Many people like it fair fast and fun... and I don't have to cater to everyone tyvm.
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MegaMew
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« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2011, 05:29:54 PM » |
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Fair and Fuuuuuuuuuuu- aren't necessarily mutually exclusive. A very talented level designer can pull off both (See: Edmund).
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roboticaust
Level 3
  
Posts: 319
The game is about meat parkour, not standing still
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« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2011, 05:36:23 PM » |
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Fair and Fuuuuuuuuuuu- aren't necessarily mutually exclusive. A very talented level designer can pull off both (See: Edmund).
I know, I was being silly. But in all seriousness... most the fun of this game for me personally is the challenge aspect. I incorporate that into my levels. A lot of people get annoyed by this from what I've seen of the response to the lime key (and those ones weren't that difficult actually... I played some of the rougher versions of those levels and know better). I fully expect my levels to do what cousiners levels do. Cause some people to cry and others to rejoice. I feel for some people, this game is a badge of courage in the same way iwbtg was. They aren't playing it for fun, but for bragging rights. And that's not necessarily a bad thing. Hell, most nes players did the same thing back in the late 80s/early 90s. I just know these people will get annoyed when I and others start packaging together levels with concepts that extend beyond the games default few and push players to learn new muscle memories.
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NovaSilisko
Level 2
 
Posts: 269
That guy who finally beat the game
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« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2011, 05:36:32 PM » |
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Fair and Fuuuuuuuuuuu- aren't necessarily mutually exclusive. A very talented level designer can pull off both (See: Edmund).
Which is covered in point 3. FUUUU to a chosen demographic IS fun.
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MegaMew
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« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2011, 05:40:33 PM » |
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Fair and Fuuuuuuuuuuu- aren't necessarily mutually exclusive. A very talented level designer can pull off both (See: Edmund).
I know, I was being silly. But in all seriousness... most the fun of this game for me personally is the challenge aspect. I incorporate that into my levels. A lot of people get annoyed by this from what I've seen of the response to the lime key (and those ones weren't that difficult actually... I played some of the rougher versions of those levels and know better). I fully expect my levels to do what cousiners levels do. Cause some people to cry and others to rejoice. I feel for some people, this game is a badge of courage in the same way iwbtg was. They aren't playing it for fun, but for bragging rights. And that's not necessarily a bad thing. Hell, most nes players did the same thing back in the late 80s/early 90s. I just know these people will get annoyed when I and others start packaging together levels with concepts that extend beyond the games default few and push players to learn new muscle memories. I just hope, for the sake of all you masochists, that the Meat Boy scrubs don't down vote your levels just because they're too hard and they can't beat them. It would be a shame if all the hard levels were getting removed just because people suck. Its for that reason that I will only down vote levels if they truly suck. Otherwise I'll only up vote or abstain. I recognize that I can't be the target audience for everything, and won't let personal bias get in the way of my rating.
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Stevolutionary
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« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2011, 05:51:18 PM » |
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I'd also add two more I feel are important, but don't start with F unfortunately!
Keep it Consistent Levels should have an overarching theme to justify them as a chapter rather than a ragtag collection of individual levels. Themes can be anything from the visual style, the challenges presented, the overall difficulty, or even the message they are meant to convey. Try to somehow have a common thread running through your chapter.
Keep it Original Too many levels will be retreads (hardcore or otherwise) of existing mechanics we have seen a lot already in the main game. Others will be simply basic copies of sections from other games. Unless your levels are original, they will simply fail to capture anyone's attention and just sink into obscurity. Before you create a level, you need to ask yourself "Has this been done before?"
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NovaSilisko
Level 2
 
Posts: 269
That guy who finally beat the game
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« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2011, 05:55:54 PM » |
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I'd also add two more I feel are important, but don't start with F unfortunately!
Keep it Consistent Levels should have an overarching theme to justify them as a chapter rather than a ragtag collection of individual levels. Themes can be anything from the visual style, the challenges presented, the overall difficulty, or even the message they are meant to convey. Try to somehow have a common thread running through your chapter.
Keep it Original Too many levels will be retreads (hardcore or otherwise) of existing mechanics we have seen a lot already in the main game. Others will be simply basic copies of sections from other games. Unless your levels are original, they will simply fail to capture anyone's attention and just sink into obscurity. Before you create a level, you need to ask yourself "Has this been done before?"
Adding to the first post :B
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« Last Edit: February 24, 2011, 05:58:27 PM by NovaSilisko »
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MegaMew
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« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2011, 05:59:02 PM » |
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Keep it Consistent Levels should have an overarching theme to justify them as a chapter rather than a ragtag collection of individual levels. Themes can be anything from the visual style, the challenges presented, the overall difficulty, or even the message they are meant to convey. Try to somehow have a common thread running through your chapter.
This is a good one, but keep in mind that one consistency is that each level is drastically different. It would be harder to work with, since every level truly must be completely underivative of the previous, but it is a "common" thread nonetheless. Keep it Original Too many levels will be retreads (hardcore or otherwise) of existing mechanics we have seen a lot already in the main game. Others will be simply basic copies of sections from other games. Unless your levels are original, they will simply fail to capture anyone's attention and just sink into obscurity. Before you create a level, you need to ask yourself "Has this been done before?"
I would also add that if you answer the question of "has this been done before" that doesn't mean you need to totally scrap the idea. Think of a way to make it unique. 2 existing mechanics at the same time may create something totally different, or you could find a way to slightly tweak it to give it your own creative spin. There are only so many mechanics, but an infinite combination of mixes, difficulties, visual styles, set characters all working to create the levels. All of that said, don't let your levels get too too cluttered or complex. There is something to be said for the simplicity of Meat Boy Vs. The Saw Blades.
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roboticaust
Level 3
  
Posts: 319
The game is about meat parkour, not standing still
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« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2011, 06:09:13 PM » |
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I would like to expand on Mews last post and on something me and Nova have joked about before...
Keep it Appealing Your levels may be amazing, complex and full of fun, but if you do not spend time trying to build appropriate visual elements such as lighting effects, layer color filters, decoration both foreground and background; you will be making rather stale levels to say the least. The editor has dozens of differing types for each block, use em. The editor has 7 layers to work with, make use of them. The editor has tons of decorations, spice it up.
Also to touch base on the Fast aspect, optional paths less traveled are a great way to create this element. Add multi-directionality where you can. When doing so, make the faster path riskier so that the risk/reward aspect of the game shines.
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MegaMew
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« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2011, 06:16:01 PM » |
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That's very very true. If the level looks like the game is running on ultralow detail no one is going to want to play it. Make the user believe that Meat Boy is part of an actual living breathing world.
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OluapPlayer
Level 1

Posts: 107
Take control and press the Gaben
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« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2011, 07:50:09 PM » |
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Keep It Fast Well, there goes my Tofu Boy chapter. 
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MegaMew
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« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2011, 08:07:39 PM » |
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Keep It Fast Well, there goes my Tofu Boy chapter.  Lets rephrase that a little for Tofu's sake: Keep it as fast as reasonably possible.
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Psychopath
Global Moderator
Level 3
    
Posts: 398
Friendly neighborhood psychopath
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« Reply #13 on: February 24, 2011, 08:14:25 PM » |
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Keep it Simple For the most part, overly complex puzzles in a game like Super Meat Boy will only serve to anger players. People play the game to run fast, jump and dodge obstacles, and save Bandage Girl; most people don't want their gaming experience to be bogged down by some puzzle unless it can be executed seamlessly. Additionally, stages should not be literally impossible to clear on the first run (a complete leap of faith to land on a 1-block platform 5 screens below is not engaging in the slightest). A player should be able to look at a stage, and be able to tell what they need to do fairly easily (at least a seasoned player can) with the rest coming down to perfecting one's own timing and reflexes.
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Shamelessly promoting the game he works on through his avatar since 2009
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NovaSilisko
Level 2
 
Posts: 269
That guy who finally beat the game
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« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2011, 08:18:38 PM » |
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Keep it Simple For the most part, overly complex puzzles in a game like Super Meat Boy will only serve to anger players. People play the game to run fast, jump and dodge obstacles, and save Bandage Girl; most people don't want their gaming experience to be bogged down by some puzzle unless it can be executed seamlessly. Additionally, stages should not be literally impossible to clear on the first run (a complete leap of faith to land on a 1-block platform 5 screens below is not engaging in the slightest). A player should be able to look at a stage, and be able to tell what they need to do fairly easily (at least a seasoned player can) with the rest coming down to perfecting one's own timing and reflexes.
Added. Think I could get a sticky? /beg 
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